Nature Speaks Project

INTERVIEW WITH  BETH BEURKENS   

TRANSCRIPT OF A SHAMANIC JOURNEY TAKEN TO THE WORLD TREE 

DATE:            March 31, 2005 

Place:              Weed, CA  (Mt. Shasta area)

Interviewer:   Linda Milks

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Several months before this interview, I had taken a basic workshop on Shamanic Journeying with Michael and Sandra Harner in San Francisco.  Beth, who had been a student of theirs, was assisting them and this is where I met her.  I introduced myself, told her about the NSP project I was working on and asked if I might interview her for this.  She agreed!

I went to her home in Weed which is a small community just north of Mt. Shasta in northern CA. 

Beth has been practicing and teaching shamanic journeying for many years and facilitates workshops in the US and Europe.  She also has a private practice and uses a studio in her home as an office.  It is a quiet, cozy, comfortable space which looks out into her back yard.

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Beth asks me how NSP came about.

LINDA: 

I was driving in Marin county several years ago and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that Nature, someone was trying to communicate with me.  It was a telepathic sensing and was so strong that I got out of my car and just stood by the side of the road and this is what came through. So I spent about 6 months off and on researching then, you know, life and work got in the way and also I don’t think I was ready to run with it.

BETH:

Yeah, that makes sense.

LINDA:

I needed a few more years of maturation. I hike a lot and about a year ago I was walking among the redwoods and it was so plain to me that they were “communicating” but I did not know what they wanted.  But it felt like a similar message as the initial calling – “we have something to say and will you amplify our voice in some way?”  It came as a kind of pressure, - but my intuition is often wrong - ( laughter). 

So I like for the messages to come through in many ways over a period of time before I am confident, before it really sinks in that this is what it is.  So that’s what happened.  There was a tipping point that happened last August - September and it just became crystal clear to me that, you know the term dharma - in my tradition we use dharma as our life mission, and this is my purpose.  It is clear as day this is my purpose, my personal mission is answering this call. And this was my initial understanding too.

And it is continuing to evolve, I do a lot of research and reading and you are the 3^rd interview.

BETH: 

3^rd times the charm.  ( laughter)

LINDA: 

So it is still evolving - it takes on a life of its own and I’m just here to steward the process and to capture and coordinate what I can - I have these skills.

BETH: 

That’s good.  So you’re devoting full time to the trees now or you still have a day job?

LINDA:

 I need more of an income…I do research part-time for a trilogy of documentary films on the women of Tibet. That’s what I’m doing right now.

BETH: 

Oh cool - wow!

 I’d like to know more about that because I’d like to have a small women’s film festival here in Mt. Shasta.  So that’s an aside - that’s a whole other topic.

LINDA:

 Oh! - well this is actually sold to PBS and will be shown next year.  FrameofMindFilms.com.

BETH:

As your talking I’m thinking of the Council of All beings - you must know about them.

LINDA:

 Yes!  

BETH: 

John Seeds work. It’s very similar, your voice and his voice.  What you’re talking about and Joanna Macy.  The idea that animals and the plants are trying to communicate to us.  And our ears have gotten so thick and the noise of civilization has become rather loud so it’s hard for us to hear what they’re saying.  So John Seed and Joanna Macy - you know Joanna Macy?

LINDA:

Yes - not personally - but I’ve heard her speak on several occassions in the Bay Area.  I’ve read her books too.

BETH: 

I know her personally - she’s an incredible lady.

LINDA:

MMM. John Seed - I don’t think I know him though.

BETH:

John Seed - he has a book about it.

LINDA:

The Council of All Beings?

BETH: 

I don’t know the name of the book off hand.  It’s about the Council of All Beings - and I actually did - I’ve taught a class at Cabrillo College in Santa Cruz and now here at COS - a class called Earth Wisdom: Women in the environment. In one of those classes many years ago when this whole idea came out of having a Council, we still had a large Teepee on campus where we would sometimes do auxiliary classes.  So I took the whole group in there and some of them had face paint on, some of them had masks, some of them had special ceremonial clothing to represent a particular animal.  We worked with the animals.

LINDA: 

They meaning…?

BETH: 

My students.  Men and women and they tended to be in their 20’s and 30’s - very passionate about the earth, very concerned about the environment. Each if them chose an animal and we sat in a circle around a fire and we did a council.  And each person, I would say shamanically merged with that animal spirit - even though I didn’t know the words back them. That’s how I would see it now - and spoke as gorilla, as bear, as Bengal tiger, as mouse, as wolf.  It was very powerful - we were in tears.  They really let the animals speak. I mean - there could be a Council of All Trees - a similar kind of thing.  I remember one of the women in my 3 year program with Michael Harner - I won’t divulge her name because it’s confidential - she’s from the Pacific Northwest - and one of her helping spirits is red cedar.  And she came to one of our meetings dressed as red cedar tree with red cedar bark.  A whole costume she was in. 

LINDA: 

That would make sense from the Pacific NW with the First Nations people - the red cedar.

BETH: 

Perfect -  It’s everything.  So she became the voice of red cedar.  She had a beautiful story that cedar told and she danced as red cedar and she smelled like cedar.  I don’t know if she had incense on or oil or how she did that.  But when she went around the circle that’s all you could smell was the red cedar.  It was wonderful.  So I really like this idea of merging with the spirit of animal and the spirit of tree.  We also do something in shamanism called the dance of the trees.  Where each person chooses a tree on their days walk, or that they really have always loved like birch or poplar or cottonwood.  And you become the tree.  And there’s a particular kind of shamanic drumming that happens and you feel the roots going down into the earth and you become the tree and you dance the tree.  And it’s a way to honor the tree of that species and to exchange energy with it and allow it to come into the shamanic circle.  It’s very beautiful.

I think merging is a powerful way to both get information from helping spirits, whether they’re trees or animals or teachers in human form.   And to do like an energy exchange, an honoring in that way by being willing to let it come in.  

And it sounds to me like you’re doing that in your own way and really trying to listen to - what are they telling us?

When I think about trees I think about all the desert trees and plants that are gone from LA; that have just disappeared because it’s such a massive ugly mess of a place and the people have now become like the trees down there.  They are filtering the air.  The trees used to do that.  And now the people are doing it. They’re acting as if they’re trees.  They’re taking all that pollution that the trees always took and filtering it through their own lungs.  It’s a very bizarre twist of fate when you think about it.  That all those Joshua trees, all the desert - giant, giant - they’re bushes actually - but they were so big they’re like trees.  The Palm trees, all that stuff - so much of it is gone!  So we’re the substitutes.

I used to live in Santa Barbara.  And so we’d go to LA - you know when I was in University.  And oh it was tough being down there.  It was tough on the lungs and eyes.  What are we doing?  I mean you know, the trees must be saying - what are you doing? We are your lungs.  What are you thinking?  You are taking this all down.  Everywhere!  I don’t know, what the rate of acres is - I hear it and I can’t even hold it in my mind.  Down in the rainforest - it’s just unbelievable the rate of destruction - and OK - who’s going to breathe?  Where are we going to get the oxygen from if the lungs of the planet are removed?  And that’s what’s happening. They are being removed.

You know that’s not all they are. Trees are for me part of the incredible beauty of the earth. And part of the power of the natural world and they’re one of the most powerful spirits of nature. 

I actually moved to Santa Cruz County because of an experience that I had.  I finished my masters thesis, turned it in, got it approved, it was all done.  And I drove from Marin County in my little VW down to Santa Cruz County to visit a friend at night.   I went over highway 17 for the first time and - I don’t know if you’ve been over highway 17 but its all redwoods and live oaks and maples and especially the redwoods.  I had my little sunroof open - it must have been the end of summer and I felt this stirring presence of these trees.  They spoke to me in my whole body!  I just felt fed and seen and welcomed to the area - pulled, magnetized to keep going down the mountain. 

LINDA:

What year was this?

BETH: 

This was 1974.  And that experience told me I belong here.  I want to be here. And it was the trees.  It wasn’t a windy night.  It was a very calm night, it was just the power of their presence.  I had never felt anything like that before!  The power of the redwood forest.  I was in the middle of the temperate rainforest.  I didn’t know that. I didn’t know this part of the rainforest of the coast of CA and they need so much water a year and I didn’t know anything about redwoods except it’s a CA tree we never had in the Midwest.  So I moved to Santa Cruz because of the trees, because I felt them so deeply.

LINDA:

Was this your first profound experience with the trees?

BETH:

No.  But it was a life changing experience with the trees. And then when I came up here a year and a half ago on a sabbatical to work on my book, I really, really felt witnessed and held by the ponderosa pine and the incense cedar trees here.  And realized I belong with these trees now.  This is where I belong.  With all of these forests in the whole Cascade range.  I belong here now. I don’t belong with the coastal trees anymore. I am filled with them and full with them…

LINDA:

So again, because of your experience with the trees, you moved.

BETH: 

And with the mountain of course.  But a lot of it was the trees.

LINDA:

And you can distinguish between the tree energy and the mountain energy.  You knew it was these particular trees - the ponderosa and the cedar.

BETH: 

Oh yeah.

LINDA: 

Can you say more how you knew that?

BETH:

Watching the quality of light on the long Ponderosa pine needles.  I would just sit in my writing chair and be working and I would look up and see how the light was held on each of those long, long, long needles.   And then how the water would come down those needles and then how they held the snow.  It was like the nature of their being, their Beingness, the way they are.

LINDA: 

So it was not only a visual physical thing it was an internal metaphysical charge as well?

BETH:

Yes.  A feeling of belonging to those trees.  It’s ironic that I don’t have any here in my yard.  I wish I did and I probably will need to plant one.  Just down the hill here there’s lots of Ponderosa but I’m up in a slightly different ecosystem here and here there’s Juniper.  And Juniper I know from all the vision quests I’ve led in the Mojave Desert.  And Juniper also really welcomes me but it’s very different.  I wouldn’t have moved here because of Junipers - I love Junipers. I have a lot of associations with Junipers and Raymond Stone, the medicine man in Owens Valley, who I worked with - and when I see them I think of him, and the sweat lodges we did, the pipes we smoked.  But I moved here because of the Ponderosas and the cedars.  The smell of the cedar and the nature of those long needles with the Ponderosa, really captured my imagination in a way that redwood once did.  And it’s new - it’s all new.  I never get tired of looking at them. Being around them and how their bark is, you know the big pieces they have of their bark.  Bears love Ponderosas - they put their claws in and just really rub up against them and they feel good on the fur on their backs.  There’s something so magical about them, that they have these long, long, long needles, it’s pretty amazing. 

And then the other tree that really, that’s up on the mountain, is the white fir.  That’s amazing - it has the silver white bark - you know the white fir?  And the very short, thick needles, kind of silvery green needles.  Those are very special.  But they are only at like a certain elevation.  I think it’s when you get to about 5,000 feet that’s when they start to appear.  And only to a certain elevation and then they disappear.  There’s this range that they need. I guess it has to do with the amount of cold they can tolerate, the amount of moisture that they need, their just in a certain band all along Mt. Shasta.  I was just with them the other day at a friend’s house.  It was so good to see them  - they feel like deep spiritual allies, the white fir. 

It’s very different with the cedar and the Ponderosa, they’re more, I don’t know, more familiar, more part of the family.  The white fir does grow at a higher elevation - it’s more like a spiritual ally, it’s just a very different feeling to me.  But I mean there are just so many trees, millions of them, they just go on forever.   You know there are way more trees here than there are people in this county.

LINDA:

And this is a good thing!

BETH:

This is a very good thing for me!

LINDA:

That’s the way it should be.

BETH:

I lived in the city of Watsonville for 13 years.   In a sweet house that I’m now selling and in a neighbor’s yard behind me, there was this giant sequoia.  Somebody must have planted it because it’s out of its element.  But it was so big - it must be a couple hundred years old. And my feeling was always that I was able to live in the city because of the presence of that tree.  It was so big and massive - it had one giant, giant red trunk that went up and then it split so from my vantage point in my back yard it looked like I was looking at 2 giant sequoia trees.  It was extraordinary, there was a whole entire ecosystem that lived in it, you know? 

There were falcons that lived in it and city crows of course and mocking birds, lots of song birds, and humming birds love it - it was magnificent. It just made all the difference in my life.  It was a great gift and I couldn’t have stayed there that long without that tree.  The spiritual presence and the greenery - it gave the feeling that I was in the natural world even though I was in the city.  You know with city sewers and sidewalks and cars and cars with music coming out of them and school buses and, oh my god I don’t miss any of that. That tree was everything - and the peach tree in my backyard, which is blossoming right now; pink blossoms all over it.

LINDA: 

This thought just came to me and I want to ask it even though it might seem jarring?

BETH: 

Mmhmm - go ahead.

LINDA:

How would you feel if that tree was cut down?

BETH:

Well that’s interesting.  I, at one point, started to call around and see if I could turn that into an historically preserved tree.  Because I know that’s been done a lot in the city of Santa Cruz.  So I called a lot of arboretum, political involved people in Santa Cruz.  They couldn’t believe that I was concerned about a tree that was on somebody else’s property!  So I met a dead end - there was nothing I could do to preserve that tree, even though it was really at the center of my life.

So, on a political level there was nothing I could do.  I realized this is so important to me and it must be important to everybody so I began to pray for the tree.  I asked one of my helping spirits to watch over that tree and keep that tree healthy because there had been on the same property a giant old magnolia tree - it was incredible. And the neighbor next door, when he bought the house next door, he didn’t like that magnolia tree dropped stuff.  So he pressured them and they cut it down. And when that happened I freaked out. Because this other tree also could have easily been spitting stuff over there.  It makes these big nut-like things and little branches could come off and I thought, oh no, that could be next!  So that’s actually when I started calling around and there was nothing, nothing that could be done. It would have been up to the owner.  And it was a big rental property.  It felt like the tree was just there - and invisible to most of the people.  Invisible in the sense that trees like it when we pay attention to them and when we care about them and when we want them to be healthy and preserved and protected.  You know that it had been there for a couple hundred years - how amazing is that!  All that it’s seen,   compared to us in our little 13 or 20 years or whatever!

LINDA:

Yeah.

BETH:

So I was very concerned about the wellbeing of that tree. So now I’m gone and it’s good to think of it to just send out a prayer again for its wellbeing.  Hopefully the new people that buy my house will take that job on. I don’t know them - but they like to go camping - I know that about them so they will probably love that tree too………I don’t know if this is what you want.  This is what’s coming out.

LINDA:

Yeah - this is what’s coming out and this is good. Is it possible for you to get into a space where you might be able to communicate with tree spirits now? 

BETH:

Well I could do a journey.

LINDA:

Is that the main way you do this?

BETH: 

Yeah. I could do a shamanic journey and if it’s OK with the tree I could speak the journey out loud. You know that simultaneous thing that Michael (Harner) was talking about.   The simultaneous narration where you’re journeying and at the same time you’re narrating out loud - he mentioned that at the end of the course. (Way of the Shaman course in Feb. that I took in SF) I know there was a lot of information.  Hahahaha.  I could do that.

I would need to know, like, where to go. You know - do you want me to go to the World Tree?  Do you want me to go to a physical tree somewhere on the earth that you’d like to know if it has a message?  Or what?  Do you know what the World Tree is?  The cosmic tree in shamanism? The shaman’s tree of life?

LINDA:

I have seen a diagram of that, yes.

BETH:

Its crown is in the upper world.  The trunk is in the middle world and the roots are in the lower world.

LINDA:

 Yeah. I’m familiar with that image and that symbol.

BETH:

In shamanism, like the circle, it’s one of the most powerful images.  A circle is more abstract.  And then there’s the drum, and there’s the tree and there’s helping spirits. It’s like at the World tree or the cosmic tree is at the center of everything.

LINDA: 

That sounds like the place to go.

BETH: 

And ask what?

LINDA:

My overriding interest is to ask the tree spirit what is it that they want us to know?  The larger human species?  I mean I’m kind of just being a scribe for them.

BETH:

OK, that’s an interesting question.  Where’s that list of questions?  Let me just take a look at that.  There’s one thing on there that was pretty interesting, I thought, Oh wow - that would be great.   (we look at the list of questions I had prepared) 

LINDA:

I’m trying to understand their world.

BETH: 

Here, “What are the most important things you would like humans to know about trees?” I’m sorry, go ahead, I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

LINDA:

Well, I’ve done a lot of reading and there seems to be a consensus that there’s really “tree” - and even though we see individual trees, they’re really not individuals like we think we are individuals, like an individual soul.  They are truly connected, totally connected with the spirit of their species.  Just like a finger is connected, in a different way that we understand it.  And I’m still trying to get a clearer understanding on how to perceive them.  So, everything that they want to tell me is beneficial.

BETH:  

You want to hear it!   Have you tried to journey, yourself?

LINDA: 

Yes.  I don’t trust it yet….

BETH: 

And you haven’t learned how to journey into the middle world either so…Well this won’t be a middle world journey though.  

LINDA: 

OK. If you feel comfortable doing this - this would be wonderful.

BETH: 

Sure - it would be fun to do it. 

LINDA:

Excellent.

BETH: 

Sure - and with this question.  “What are the most important things you would like humans to know about trees?”

LINDA:

Right.

BETH:

So I can go to the world tree and ask that. Yeah - that sounds like fun.  I love to journey.

(Brief discussion on how best to do it with the taping.  We both use drums and for about 10 minutes we are either drumming with a hand - held drum & stick with a cushioned head - and/or she is using a rattle, to the 4 directions.  She lies down and covers up with a blanket and covers her eyes with a handkerchief and settles in for the journey.)

BETH:  

I’m going to ask “What are the most important things that you would like humans to know about trees.”  (She is silent for about 4 minutes before she begins to translate the information she is receiving from her spirit animal who is helping her go to the world tree.   She wants the identity of her spirit animal to remain private and didn’t tell me what animal it is.) 

(What follows is from her journey)

So I’ve come to the top of the world tree.  It’s an enormous tree with one of my power animal helpers.  It appears we’re towards the top of the tree and we’re looking down into the trunk of the tree somehow. And it feels like the seat of the oracle.  So I’m going to send the question down into the tree now.  “What are the most important things you want humans to know about trees?”

And the 1st thing that I hear are the words, “Don’t waste us.”  The tree is talking about how much waste there is on earth.  Waste of paper, cardboard, packaging and then the larger wasting and destruction of forests.

The tree is talking about that trees are beings just like humans.  They’re hungry, they give-back, they take, they have spirits and souls, they have questions, they have problems, they are healers, they’re entertainers, and they’re just like humans.  Only they stand in one place, but they do the same things we do as humans.  They love, they grieve, they laugh, they even go on vacation the tree tells me.  

I’m going to repeat the question. “What is it that you want us to know about you?” 

We grow in circles.  We’re part of the sacred circle of life.  You can’t live without us. We can live without you but you need us to survive, to thrive, to be healthy. 

My power animal is showing me that we need to go down into the tree now.  So we’re going to do that. 

There are these very old people, very old beings, sitting down in this tree room.  They have piles of seeds in front of them.  I see the giant sequoia seeds, and the redwood nuts, eucalyptus buttons.   They seem to be the seeds that trees grow from and someone is saying that this is the real gold on earth - the seeds of the old ancient trees.  There’s acorns, beechnut, chestnuts.  Again the message is don’t waste the seeds.  That so much has been wasted - whole forests are gone.   This is all part of the hair of mother earth - the trees and the greenery. 

They’re making some kind of analogy between the human heart and the nut of the tree.  That somehow it’s the same - what our heart is to us, the nut of the tree is to the tree. 

The tree holds the center together, the center of the net of life.  And now we’re sliding down to the center of the tree, very fast.  It’s very fun - slippery in here.  Now we must be sliding on sap or something, just like on a slide, down into the dark. 

Now my power animal is saying that the journey is complete. 

(The amount of time for the journey - when Beth lay down and got settled - until she sat up was @ 28 minutes.)

BETH: 

That was fun. 

LINDA: 

Are you with me, do want me to give you some time?

BETH: 

No, I’m with you.  That feels really wonderful being there.

LINDA: 

Had you ever been there before?

BETH: 

Not that particular place, no. But I’ve never gone with that intention.  Oh, that was just remarkable.

LINDA:

Was it?

BETH:

Yeah.

LINDA:

I tried not to laugh when you said that we go on vacation.

BETH: 

Yeah - I don’t know what that was about.

LINDA: 

Can I clarify something?

BETH: 

Sure.

LINDA: 

When you said the tree nut, did you mean the actual nut that we eat…

BETH: 

The acorns.  I don’t know, they didn’t really distinguish.  But what I saw were piles of acorns and piles of chestnuts and piles of eucalyptus - what we call buttons - I guess they’re nuts, and piles of beechnuts, that’s a tree that’s found in Europe a lot.  And I don’t know whatever else. And chestnuts.

LINDA:

Yeah.  Can you describe the very old beings?

BETH:

 No, not really.  I’ve never seen them before.  I don’t know exactly who they were. 

LINDA: 

Did they have a physical form?

BETH:

 Yeah. Kind of an old wizened, human form with wild, raggedy silver hair kind of thing.  I don’t know, they didn’t seem like elves or anything like that.  It was like just these old beings that are the guardians of these nuts, or the caretakers of the nuts of the trees of the world.  You know there was only one or two of them I could see really clearly.  It was a really, really big room with a lot of these beings and a lot of these piles of these nuts.  I would have to go back and ask them more about themselves but it was just, you know, with that intention of what is it the trees want us to know.  Actually I don’t remember a whole lot, let’s see.

LINDA:

Waste was the main theme.

BETH: 

Waste was the big theme, and the similarity between humans and trees.  That we’re the same basically.

LINDA: 

So they were indicating that there are individual personalities and characteristics just like we have?

BETH: 

No they didn’t say that at all.

LINDA:

No they didn’t - I’m reading that into it?

BETH: 

You’re reading that into it.  You have to be careful, they didn’t say that at all.  They said that trees and human beings are the same except that trees stand in one place.  But that we’re basically the same, we have all these things in common.  You know the things that we want, and that we’re happy about and what we suffer with. And in the end that our heart - we have hearts and they have these incredible nuts, that are very similar somehow. 

I would have never put those two things together but that’s what they said.  They said their heart somehow is contained in these incredible seeds which are precious and need to be preserved.  I don’t know if I said that out loud but these seeds need to be preserved and taken care of. They were gold right - that’s right.  They are the gold of the earth - these seeds from all these different species.  And then what was the last thing that was the most profound.   Trees are at the center of the web of life and they hold it together.  And the trees can live without us.

That was fabulous, it was wonderful.  I love the tree of life, I love going there.

LINDA: 

Uh, let me know if this is not an appropriate question.  Can you tell me who your spirit animal is?

BETH: 

I can’t.  I mean I could but I won’t.  There’s different shamanic traditions about that, some shamanic tribes in the world freely talk about all their helping spirits and their power animals and it’s just part of the daily conversation.  And others don’t.

LINDA: 

I remember the Harner’s saying that.

BETH:

Yes, and you know I’ve worked so much with Michael and it just feels right not to name it.  Let it be, secret or sacred or whatever.

LINDA: 

Yeah.  Is there anything else that you would like to say about your journey?  Clarify anything?

BETH: 

No, I think you’ve got it on tape.  I would love it if you could transcribe it and send it to me.  That would be wonderful.  It was great, a great journey.

LINDA: 

I will transcribe it and send it to you……It seems like this is kind of a natural ending time, but if you’re willing to continue on…!

BETH:  

Yes, I’m fine with it.  What else do you want to know?  Bring it on!

LINDA:

I have some personal questions I’m interested in asking you - we’ve covered part of them.  I was wondering when you first discovered your interest in non-ordinary states?

BETH: 

Probably as a child, definitely as a child.

LINDA: 

Would you share any memory that comes to mind?

BETH:

 Yeah. I remember being in my backyard in Michigan.  I was very small and-

LINDA:

Where in Michigan?

BETH:

 Outside of Grand Rapids, and the aurora borealis was in the night sky and I could hear it singing.  I can still hear that in my head, the sound of that.  And I spent most all of my free time in nature.  I was more comfortable with nature than people. And I think I was in a slightly altered state. I was always talking to the animals and the plants and the waves, the spirit of Lake Michigan and the fish and the lake.  You know that was just normal.

LINDA:

So you had a relationship.

BETH:

Yeah, with the spirits of the natural world. A very deep profound relationship.  And I loved things like twirling around and going on a swing as high as I could.  You know that motion taking me into kind of an altered state - kind of like a whirling dervish I guess.

LINDA:

Yeah - that’s what I first thought of.

BETH:

Yeah - I really liked all that stuff.  But there weren’t any words for that or any names for that.

LINDA:

Yes.  Were you born and raised in Michigan?

BETH:

Yeah. It’s a great state. 

LINDA:

A beautiful state.

BETH: 

Yeah - Lots of trees - all the pine trees, oh my God. The pine trees are what I think of and the lake.  It’s pretty far north, Michigan - so I had amazing night skies.  And the occasional aurora borealis.

LINDA:

Can you describe how you communicate with the natural world, with the trees in particular?  And, who engages who? Is there an intention?  Is it a feeling, pictures, auditory?

BETH: 

That’s enough descriptions - (chuckles)  I don’t know who engages who but I do get engaged.  I don’t know who initiates it, it just happens.  It happened this morning.  I was walking around the back yard and, I don’t know, the trees called me out there and I just started touching them and kind of caressing one of them - it’s like a cedar tree that’s out on the back yard.  And I just brought it to my lips and kissed it and I really appreciate that you’re here in the yard - you’re an extraordinary Being, thank you for being here. I’m really happy to get to know you because it’s not the kind of tree I’ve ever lived with before.  It’s a cedar or juniper, I don’t know what it is exactly.  I think its more kinisthetic for me. I think I really feel it somehow more with my body than I actually hear it, but it could be that I’m hearing something…

(tape cuts off & it seems I missed a sentence-LM)

They were all just hanging there in their pods, and then they slowly started to open up and then we got a heat wave and then they all opened up in one day. And then there was a wind that came a few days later and then they were all gone.  You know it was amazing.   Dogwood trees are incredible. 

So, I don’t know - I touch things. I like to touch the branches and you know I really like to talk to them a lot.  But it’s not really clear who initiates that, it seems like it must be mutual.  Its’ just time to be with the trees and connect with the trees.  They’re probably always calling me out there, but you know I have work I need to do and clients I need to see! (laughter)  I don’t have two years like Julia (referring to Julia Butterfly Hill who spent 2 years living up high in a redwood tree as a way of protecting some old growth forest in northern CA) to just go hang out in the tree.   Or I’m choosing not to spend my time that way. 

LINDA:

Do you have any other stories or memories that you’d like to share of times when you have communicated with trees?  You’ve mentioned a couple, down in Santa Cruz and here and I’m wondering if there’s another specific communication.

BETH:

Yeah.  A bristle cone - on my vision quest.  I was high up in the White Mountains, you know the Inyo White Mountains?

LINDA:

 Yes, down south.

BETH:

Yes it is south of here.  And in my place of power there were a couple of big old bristle cone pines. 

LINDA: 

And when was this?

BETH:

This would have been 1984, I think.

LINDA: 

And this was a vision quest you went on…

BETH:

Yes, it was my first vision quest.

LINDA:

How long did it last?

BETH:

4 days and 4 nights.   And my teacher Raymond Stone - there were 2 of us going out on the fast, another woman and myself.  And my teacher, I got to meet with him and have a going out sweat, - so we went out to talk with him and ask him questions - And he kind of gave us a warning before we went out -you know this is all his territory, he’s a medicine man.  And he said be careful, don’t get out there and start moving the rocks around and changing the landscape when you’re out there in your place of power. And I thought - well this is a dumb thing to tell us, I would never do that.  I would never think of doing that, why is he telling us that?

And then I said will you come and check on us spiritually?  Will you come and do that?  And he said something about, let me worry about that. 

And so then we went out - there was this terrible storm with lightening and rain, the night before, it was so terrifying.  And we went out, we were driving up the mountain and it was still kind of drizzling and then it cleared and there was a double rainbow - it was an amazing portal to go through.  And we climbed up the mountain to find our places - we were at @ 8500 feet - it was in September and it was blistering hot.  And so my priority was a tree - you know to have shade more than my tarp, but to have a tree.  And so I found a place with beautiful, crystalline sandstone and these two bristlecone pine trees.  And I think I did put up my tarp the first day but I didn’t really need it, it was beautiful weather the whole time.  And I kept banging my head on one of these old branches - you know how bristlecones have these old branches that are dead, that just like stick out of there trunks? And I’m fasting so I’m slightly in an altered state of consciousness, I kept banging into this stick, and I got really upset with it.  And I found myself with my hand on it and I was going to just take it off because it would be much nicer for me to take it off. 

And as I had my hand on it I remembered Raymond saying, “don’t change the environment.”  So I stopped myself and I had to apologize to the tree.  You know what I was about to do - how would I do that?  I’m only there 4 days and that tree is still there and that branch is still there, hopefully.  It’s pretty amazing.  And a couple times I was sure that Raymond came through in spirit to check on me.  He’s deceased now.

LINDA:

What tribe was Raymond with?

BETH:

Payut.  He was a beautiful old man.   So that’s a story that I think of, that beautiful tree.  I still see that tree.  Its’ wonderful having my back against her.  It’s an incredible place up there.  There were bluebirds up there.  Constantly flying through and singing.  It was like oh my god I must be in paradise up here.  These bluebirds of happiness flying through, and all these stones and flakes of obsidian.  Clearly native Americans had been there making arrowheads.

And then when I went to the edge of my place and looked down, there was this giant, huge turquoise, deep teal colored spring that was down there.  It is called deep springs.  And that’s where the college is, Deep Springs College.  It’s right there by that spring and was named after that spring.  It was incredible to be able to look down on this amazing body of water in the middle of the dessert.  It was gorgeous. 

LINDA:

Is there anything that comes to mind as being one of the most important things you’ve learned from trees?

BETH:

Laughs - That’s such an intellectual question, I can’t go there - I’m just drawing a blank!   Oh just everything about life - and more - (laughs)  All of the above, none of the above, A,B,C,D, E,F, and G, X,Y,Z,!!

LINDA:

Is there anything that you would want the trees to know about us humans?

BETH: 

Hmmm.  It would be that many of us humans love the trees and feel partnered with the trees and really care about the trees.  It’s just some human beings who are driven by greed and ignorance and who feel that they have the right to own trees and bulldoze them and cut their bodies and make money from them.  But that many, many, many of us really care about trees and love trees and are working hard for their safety and well being. 

I think more people care about trees than not. I really do.  Of course I’m working with a very specific population - when I work with apprentices - I have apprentices who are learning the vision quest work who want to be vision quest guides.  One of the stories that I always ask them in the beginning of our training is to share with all of us any significant memories they have when they were young in their relationship with nature.  And invariably, in about ¾ of the stories, there’s a significant tree in each woman’s life, in the story that she tells. 

Trees are very important to most of us.  Think about how many people plant trees because they’re beautiful. They give shade and fruit and companionship.  The tree makes the yard.  I guess it would be something like that.  That’s very interesting.  ..One more question.

LINDA: 

OK. It’s a personal question to you.   Would you like to share what your purpose is, what you’re life mission is?

BETH:

(Laughs) - I don’t know..  That’s such a big question.  I’ll just say to have a good time with my golden retriever.  Go to the lake and let her swim (laughter) and hike and throw the ball as often as possible.

LINDA:

 It doesn’t get much better than that!

BETH:

Yeah - really!

End Tape.

Transcribed by Linda Milks, completed on 4/26/05.